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	<title>Comments on: Provocation #11</title>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.tech-samaritan.org/blog/2006/08/07/provocation-11/comment-page-1/#comment-5918</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Sep 2006 02:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daniel.shackelford.org/blog/2006/08/07/provocation-11/#comment-5918</guid>
		<description>I agree with Daniel. Kierkegaard is way different from Nietzsche. Nietzsche didn&#039;t give one damn about Christianity; Kierkegaard went to save it.  And Kierkegaard is not hostile to Jesus; his Purity of Heart and Works of Love praises Jesus and makes Him available to the average individual. 

His philosophy was about defeating Hegelianism that had infiltrated the Church. His religion is one of the greatest Protestant Christianity since Luther. Read Practice in Christianity, that ought to change your mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Daniel. Kierkegaard is way different from Nietzsche. Nietzsche didn&#8217;t give one damn about Christianity; Kierkegaard went to save it.  And Kierkegaard is not hostile to Jesus; his Purity of Heart and Works of Love praises Jesus and makes Him available to the average individual. </p>
<p>His philosophy was about defeating Hegelianism that had infiltrated the Church. His religion is one of the greatest Protestant Christianity since Luther. Read Practice in Christianity, that ought to change your mind.</p>
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		<title>By: daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.tech-samaritan.org/blog/2006/08/07/provocation-11/comment-page-1/#comment-5902</link>
		<dc:creator>daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daniel.shackelford.org/blog/2006/08/07/provocation-11/#comment-5902</guid>
		<description>Will, I appreciate your response.  I am well aware of where philosophers have taken Kierkegaard&#039;s writings, and I will separate myself from the structures that they have built upon them.  I connect with his writings because they came from a frustration with religion (or, religiosity), and they push the Christian to consider Faith.  His tact was aggressive, and passionate.  I hear his passion for action and it fans my own, but I think I have more joy, more hope.

In this particular quote, I do not find myself &quot;left standing like a man who has a rented house and gathered all the furniture and household things together, but has not yet found the beloved with whom to share the joys and sorrows of his life,&quot; but the idea that knowledge structures are just the furniture and the house in our affair with God does paint my perspective accurately.

The ache really is my desire for God, and I am not searching for meaning, as much as for opportunity to express that desire and joy.  I want to act because I know that it is action taken with God, and because I know that it pleases Him.  I know that now is a waiting time, but I can feel something building.

On the topic of hearing from God, I do believe He speaks.  I hear Him, but not through my ears, or even &quot;in my head&quot;, but in the stirrings of my heart, and the molding of my will.  Where my trouble begins is in the claiming, and proclaiming, of the speaking of God.  I think it is about authority, and I am skeptical about that authority extending beyond my own life.  I believe God can and does &quot;speak&quot; to anyone, no matter the poo, or sacraments of which they happen to partake.  I think that is where the collision begins when I am in Christian circles.  My view is that all men are just that, men (with one exception).  There is not a particular reason why a pastor that has been hired for his excellent oratory skill, and studies of theology, should expect to have any higher authority in my life than anyone else.  The claims of hearing God do not bother me, but the assumption that God speaks to only some, based on some higher spiritual faculty, or more rigorous study, does.  In my mind, it is discernment, testing of the spirits, to see what is truth.  I do not completely trust the words from any man, even myself.  What God has impressed upon me, I can share, but I will not say that God has spoken, lest my trust in my own discernment make Him a liar.

I am glad that you commented, and thank you for the good provocation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, I appreciate your response.  I am well aware of where philosophers have taken Kierkegaard&#8217;s writings, and I will separate myself from the structures that they have built upon them.  I connect with his writings because they came from a frustration with religion (or, religiosity), and they push the Christian to consider Faith.  His tact was aggressive, and passionate.  I hear his passion for action and it fans my own, but I think I have more joy, more hope.</p>
<p>In this particular quote, I do not find myself &#8220;left standing like a man who has a rented house and gathered all the furniture and household things together, but has not yet found the beloved with whom to share the joys and sorrows of his life,&#8221; but the idea that knowledge structures are just the furniture and the house in our affair with God does paint my perspective accurately.</p>
<p>The ache really is my desire for God, and I am not searching for meaning, as much as for opportunity to express that desire and joy.  I want to act because I know that it is action taken with God, and because I know that it pleases Him.  I know that now is a waiting time, but I can feel something building.</p>
<p>On the topic of hearing from God, I do believe He speaks.  I hear Him, but not through my ears, or even &#8220;in my head&#8221;, but in the stirrings of my heart, and the molding of my will.  Where my trouble begins is in the claiming, and proclaiming, of the speaking of God.  I think it is about authority, and I am skeptical about that authority extending beyond my own life.  I believe God can and does &#8220;speak&#8221; to anyone, no matter the poo, or sacraments of which they happen to partake.  I think that is where the collision begins when I am in Christian circles.  My view is that all men are just that, men (with one exception).  There is not a particular reason why a pastor that has been hired for his excellent oratory skill, and studies of theology, should expect to have any higher authority in my life than anyone else.  The claims of hearing God do not bother me, but the assumption that God speaks to only some, based on some higher spiritual faculty, or more rigorous study, does.  In my mind, it is discernment, testing of the spirits, to see what is truth.  I do not completely trust the words from any man, even myself.  What God has impressed upon me, I can share, but I will not say that God has spoken, lest my trust in my own discernment make Him a liar.</p>
<p>I am glad that you commented, and thank you for the good provocation.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.tech-samaritan.org/blog/2006/08/07/provocation-11/comment-page-1/#comment-5900</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 23:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daniel.shackelford.org/blog/2006/08/07/provocation-11/#comment-5900</guid>
		<description>Daniel, I don’t know if you actually looking for an answer, but I’ll give you one anyway on the slight chance you might hear me. I’ll probably offend you but you are worth it. When I read your blog I hear a cry in your heart.  Assuming Soren’s thoughts are colorful of your own, I’ll make a suggestion. Tell God that you can’t hear Him and are waiting for Him to speak. Waiting on the Lord is paramount to gaining revelation for action. Sometimes it takes a long time. God doesn’t always speak when we ask. However, our job is to ask for Him to speak, and when He does, don’t doubt what He says. 

It’s actually a point of pride to assume that he wouldn’t talk to you on the basis of sin. The shed blood of Jesus is His voice of unconditional love for all of us. The arrogance of shame is that it claims its hellishness is greater than the glory of the blood of Christ.  And when He does speak to you it’s no time for you to think that it’s freakish and arrogant to say to yourself “God spoke to me,” or “God said.” When God has spoken to me, you have said, (and I do not hold this against you) that I was arrogant. This attitude comes from the authority crisis in knowledge and the suspicion of fundamentalists Christian thought. 

I really hear God at times in a way that is not hearing myself. Man-made religion by contrast makes a false reduction that every voice we hear is from ourselves or others God’s voice is transcendent in nature, and consequently, not subject to the limits of existential philosophy. As it is written…”My sheep hear my voice.” John 10:14 Remember with Kierkegaard, His philosophy has some major false structures in it and they are fundamentally hostile to the nature of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. I’ll just assert this without arguing it. If your going to get in bed with Kierkegaard, your going to be sleeping with Nietzsche soon. Sure, Soren’s heart was a lot different, but His philosophy wasn’t.  Both were concerned about appeasing core tenets of the enlightenment.

Then there is the point of being versus doing. What if God said to you that He would rather you replace your desire to be used by Him with a desire for Him? Do you actually have a desire for God? It sounds like you do. Bottom line, God doesn’t need you or me to accomplish His purposes. He gives us freedom to take as much time we need to get to know him. For Paul, it was three years. Perhaps the scariest scripture to me is where Jesus states; “Depart from me, I never knew you.” If you are confused tell Him that you are lost. Remember, the son of man came to seek and save that which is lost. When I am lost, I always speak Luke 19:10 to myself. He came for the lost. 

My heart really goes out to you. Being a third generation member in a Christian family is exceptionally difficult. In my case, no one was saved, and we got to wallow through all the poop of chaos, fear, and rage. Life experience had a prima facie smell that was repulsive. Religiosity in my book is more toxic than all that. I’m not saying that the family is religious, just that I may be religious in nature to your basic seemings.  Religion is an imposter that sets itself up in the place of Christ. What I hear when I read your words is that you are really against religion, and an external orientation to Jesus Christ. I’m with you on that. But I’m all for Jesus. I like being internally related to God through the agency of the Holy Spirit. See John 17. Many times our churches operate under the name of Jesus apart from Jesus. The result is the powerless to repel sin. This is the condition Paul mentioned in 2 Timothy 3. 

Well, there is my provocation to your provocation. May God’s blessings be upon you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, I don’t know if you actually looking for an answer, but I’ll give you one anyway on the slight chance you might hear me. I’ll probably offend you but you are worth it. When I read your blog I hear a cry in your heart.  Assuming Soren’s thoughts are colorful of your own, I’ll make a suggestion. Tell God that you can’t hear Him and are waiting for Him to speak. Waiting on the Lord is paramount to gaining revelation for action. Sometimes it takes a long time. God doesn’t always speak when we ask. However, our job is to ask for Him to speak, and when He does, don’t doubt what He says. </p>
<p>It’s actually a point of pride to assume that he wouldn’t talk to you on the basis of sin. The shed blood of Jesus is His voice of unconditional love for all of us. The arrogance of shame is that it claims its hellishness is greater than the glory of the blood of Christ.  And when He does speak to you it’s no time for you to think that it’s freakish and arrogant to say to yourself “God spoke to me,” or “God said.” When God has spoken to me, you have said, (and I do not hold this against you) that I was arrogant. This attitude comes from the authority crisis in knowledge and the suspicion of fundamentalists Christian thought. </p>
<p>I really hear God at times in a way that is not hearing myself. Man-made religion by contrast makes a false reduction that every voice we hear is from ourselves or others God’s voice is transcendent in nature, and consequently, not subject to the limits of existential philosophy. As it is written…”My sheep hear my voice.” John 10:14 Remember with Kierkegaard, His philosophy has some major false structures in it and they are fundamentally hostile to the nature of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. I’ll just assert this without arguing it. If your going to get in bed with Kierkegaard, your going to be sleeping with Nietzsche soon. Sure, Soren’s heart was a lot different, but His philosophy wasn’t.  Both were concerned about appeasing core tenets of the enlightenment.</p>
<p>Then there is the point of being versus doing. What if God said to you that He would rather you replace your desire to be used by Him with a desire for Him? Do you actually have a desire for God? It sounds like you do. Bottom line, God doesn’t need you or me to accomplish His purposes. He gives us freedom to take as much time we need to get to know him. For Paul, it was three years. Perhaps the scariest scripture to me is where Jesus states; “Depart from me, I never knew you.” If you are confused tell Him that you are lost. Remember, the son of man came to seek and save that which is lost. When I am lost, I always speak Luke 19:10 to myself. He came for the lost. </p>
<p>My heart really goes out to you. Being a third generation member in a Christian family is exceptionally difficult. In my case, no one was saved, and we got to wallow through all the poop of chaos, fear, and rage. Life experience had a prima facie smell that was repulsive. Religiosity in my book is more toxic than all that. I’m not saying that the family is religious, just that I may be religious in nature to your basic seemings.  Religion is an imposter that sets itself up in the place of Christ. What I hear when I read your words is that you are really against religion, and an external orientation to Jesus Christ. I’m with you on that. But I’m all for Jesus. I like being internally related to God through the agency of the Holy Spirit. See John 17. Many times our churches operate under the name of Jesus apart from Jesus. The result is the powerless to repel sin. This is the condition Paul mentioned in 2 Timothy 3. </p>
<p>Well, there is my provocation to your provocation. May God’s blessings be upon you.</p>
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